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How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Hi, I know it's a silly question, the formal translation of CELT in Chinese Mandarin should be 凱爾特(Kai-Er-Te), but in Taiwan, there are some stupid record company translate CELT to 居爾特(Ju-Er-Te), I don't know where the translation came from, so I want to ask you Irish, how to pronounce CELT in Gaelic? Thanks.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by lolo258

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Random_notes

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Well the word Celt is not originally Gaelic in origin but rather from the Greek, Keltoi (Κελτοί). It would generally be pronounced with a hard C as Kelt in English (unless you are talking about the football team).

In Irish I believe that the word is Ceilteach but I will leave the correct pronounciation of that to an Irish speaker.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

basketball team?

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Random_notes

Football

http://www.celticfc.net/home.aspx

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Random_notes

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Certainly not the basketball team - young upstarts! I was indeed referring to Glasgow Celtic, the greatest football team to ever grace this small planet. :-)

(The basketball team would be pronounced the same way as the football team - with a soft C as in Seltic except the basketball team seam to call themselves the Celtics which just doesn't make sense.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Session in 10 minutes!

http://www.ibiblio.org/gaelic/Celts/celtshistory.html

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Random_notes

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Hmmm, Celtic FC didn't even make the Champions league this year getting bumped by hated rivals Rangers FC, whereas The Boston Celtics have more NBA championships than any other franchise. Ahem - But I digress, is the plural "Celtics" grammatically incorrect like Fish is to Fishes?

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

How did the Scots football team come to pronounce it with a soft S sound anyway?

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Saying "Celtics" is sort of like referring to the inhabitants of England as the Englishes.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Bob himself

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

not NBA nor football, just how to pronounce the word CELT in tranditional Irish language, I know American pronounce CELT as "Selt" and British pronounce it as "Kelt", and it seems that tranditional Irish language pronounce it as "Gelt", is that right?

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by lolo258

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

lolo - as I said Celt is not an Irish word. The Irishified version would be Ceilteach which I would imagine, working on a Scottish Gaidhlig pronounciation guide would be something like Kael-tach which is awfully similar to the word Gaeltacht (or Gaidhealtachd in Scottish Gaidhlig) which would refer to the Gaelic speaking world, perhaps a geographical distinction or just a linguistic one depending on which country you are in. It would certainly never be pronounced with a soft c.

As far as why the Scottish football team pronounces it as Seltic I believe it is just because that is how Brother Walfrid (the founder) pronounced it.

And JNE whilst Celtic did not win the championship last year (although it was very close) I note that neither did Boston. And although they won it in 2007/8 (as did Celtic) the last time before that was 1985/86. In fact you wouldn't be able to claim that record of yours if you had not had a very impressive run in the late 50s/early 60s. Hardly a record of modern success then.

What? You didn't think I would check? :-)

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

What music did the Celts play?

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by amhrán

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

FWIW:
Re. contemporary usage...

When first I visited Ireland (over 25 years ago), I asked many in various parts of the isle,
"How does one pronounce "CELTIC".

My memory is that most answered, politely I might add,
"Oh, you can say it either way - KELTIC or SELTIC."
I would then ask,
"How do YOU say it, Sir or Madam?"

And the answer was, mostly,
"Oh!
"KELTIC, of course."

FWIW.

Good Luck.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Rook

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

No Cause - you got me. Truth is, the local pub I used to session at is the unofficial home of transplanted Celtic FC fans out here in the vast cactus strewn wilderness - over the years I've become a bit of a supporter too. I'm still mad about the flop call Eduardo got against Celtic when they lost to Arsenal a few weeks ago.

Is in not so that there are "aspirated" consonants in Irish when speaking in certain terms like possessive cases? Perhaps that is why Celtic FC is said with a soft S sound?

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Not sure. Don't speak Irish. In Scottish Gaidhlig there is certainly plenty of lenition of consonants. An example of this would be at the start of a person's names when you are calling to them.

http://www.akerbeltz.org/fuaimean/seimheachadh.htm

I don't think "Celtic" would really be an example of this however. If it was I would imagine you would get something more like Cheltic with the Ch sounding similar to the ch in Loch. You certainly wouldn't get an S sound.

I think it is more likely that it is just a mistake from the football club's original founders which was then replicated when the basketball team was set up.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

And here is me talking as if I have spoken any Gaidhlig at all in the last 5+ years. My knowledge of the language was at best that of a mediocre learner and is declining every day. I really should do something about that at some point.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

I'm sorry No Cause, but I just can't stand for that. The greatest football team to ever walk the planet is the Pittsburgh Steelers!

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Nate Ryan

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

The Glaswegian Football Team is of course pronounced "Cel'ic"

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Mina the Fiddler

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

I am sorry Nate but you seem to be somewhat confused. We are talking about Football teams here. The last time I checked the Pittsburgh Steelers did not play football at all, never mind being the best. I understand that they, in fact, play some girly version of Rugby which involves a great deal of padding and where the players have extended breaks during the match when they are not even on the field of play.

Whilst I am sure that is a perfectly reasonable game in its own right amongst the sorority houses of America it is not really in the same league, so to speak.

Mina - you are of course quite right. How remiss of me. It would generally be written Sellic though.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Nate Ryan - Santonio Holmes' right foot was NOT down in the end-zone last super bowl. Az Cardinals should have won.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

That's Blasphamy! Santonio Holmes feet were right were the referee said they were

Listen, here in Pennsylvania we know about growing corn, shooting deer, and playing football...and the Steelers are the best team out there, its a documented fact. This is like arguing what color the sky is!

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Nate Ryan

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Like . . . the colour of the sky at noon . . . or midnight?

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Random_notes

. . .

or dawn . . . or dusk . . .

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Random_notes

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

They may be the best team out there for your jessified version of rugby but not football!

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

ok, I looked this up, and it seems that we have a language barrier here....

you fellas don't understand plain English! :-)

GO STEELERS!

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by Nate Ryan

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Well there is certainly nothing more plain than the Steelers.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Ali, you must be filled with mirth and glee over the Rangers' current financial woes.

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by TheSilverSpear

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

To an extent. It is always nice to see the rivals suffer but it would also be fair to say we need each other because the competition is good for our own improvement, etc.

Celtic fans are notoriously good at conspiracy theories and I even heard the theory bandied around at the time that Celtic deliberately let Rangers win the league in order that they would get the cash injection from the Champions League as without it they would crumble. I don't believe it but I do also recognise that for the continued existance of Rangers (and the long-term betterment of Celtic) maybe having those soap-dodgers from Castle Grayskull winning the league wasn't so terrible. It certainly wasn't the end of the world.

Anyway, with regard the American game, the Steelers are a bunch of jessies who are not fit to lace the boots of a Raiders man! :-)

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

What? Are you saying Motherwell (or Chris' favourite team, Partick Thistle ;) ) can't provide hard enough competition for Celtic?

:)

# Posted on October 28th 2009 by TheSilverSpear

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

A certain song, "I'm The Only Catholic On The Rangers' Team," found it's way out here.

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Apparently being from Colorado I am supposed to passionately dislike the Raiders. I am a rubbish Coloradan and actually couldn't car less.

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by TheSilverSpear

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

yeesh.... care less, even

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by TheSilverSpear

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

"I'm The Only Catholic On The Rangers' Team,"

Shouldn't that be "I'm The Only Satholic On The Rangers' Team"?

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

"How did the Scots football team come to pronounce it with a soft S sound anyway?"

I don't know anything of the history behind this specific case. But it is perhaps pertinent to ask, how did the word come to be spelled with a C in English? In almost all instances, a C is 'soft' when followed by an E, I or Y - something that is shared with all the modern Romance (and some of the Germanic) languages (although the actual realisation of a 'soft C' varies from one language to another). Perhaps, at some point in history, the letter K was deemed somehow inelegant or unrefined (it was not much used in Latin and only appears in a few loan words in French).

Whatever the reasons behind it, 'Celt' came to be spelled with a C, despite its proper pronunciation. Those coming across the word in written texts (the most likely place to find it, as it is not a word that is likely to have come up much in the colloquial speech of uneducated people over the last few centuries), not knowing otherwise, would naturally pronounce it in accordance with the 'rules'' of English pronunciation.

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

How are the axe- or chisel-like things meant when a large scale UK map has "stone celt found" marked on it pronounced.

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by david_h

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

"In almost all instances, a C is 'soft' when followed by an E, I or Y"

I had never even noticed this. I guess it is just something automatic. Of course a notable exception to this rule would be the word Ceilidh/Ceili. Whilst I realise that it is not English in origin it has been taken into the language and is pronounced with a hard C.

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

When I did Latin at school we were told that C was originally hard in all instances but it started to become soft in Latin speech in Ireland and Britain around the middle Ages.
Perhaps due to Norman influence ... ? (if that's true)

Also, anyone familiar with Scandinavian pronunciation of names like Kjell or Kersten could perhaps see how a hard K might start to soften.

Obviously, C before i or e is soft in modern Italian so it's rather similar to the Norse Kj in some instances

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by Bren

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

what I also meant to say was that monks who transcribed Irish K sounds as C were probably familiar with a hard C in Latin

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by Bren

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

"a notable exception to this rule would be the word Ceilidh/Ceili. Whilst I realise that it is not English in origin it has been taken into the language and is pronounced with a hard C."

We all know to pronounce the word 'pizza' as 'PEET-sah' or 'PIT-sah', even though there is no T in the spelling. There are numerous loan words in English usage that maintain their original spelling and (approximate) pronunciation, rather than being adapted to follow English spelling rules: cello, tarot, quiche, tortilla, tagliatelle, vermicelli, gnocchi... (There seems to be a theme developing here.). So, 'ceili(dh)' is no different. In fact, many people, not having seen the word written down before, would pronounce it 'SEE-lid' or 'SEE-lee' (...which makes perfect sense, when you consider that it shares 5 letters with 'ceiling'). If, on the other hand, they had to write it down, not having seen it written before, they would probably spell it 'caley', 'kayley' ...or if they happened to be a marillion fan, 'kayleigh'.

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

"...anyone familiar with Scandinavian pronunciation of names like Kjell or Kersten could perhaps see how a hard K might start to soften."

Incidentally, the Latvian language has an additional letter, Ķ, to precede E and I, pronounced somewhere between the C in 'cure' and the T in 'tune' (NOT N. American or East Anglian pronunciation), with a hint of the CH in 'cheer'.

Hence:

Ķelti for 'Celts'

Also, if I'm not mistaken:

Italian: Celta - Celte ('CHEL-tah/teh')
Spanish: Celta - Celtas ('THEL-ta[s]' - or 'SEL-ta[s]' in The Americas)
French: Celte - Celtes ('SELT')

but

German: Kelte - Kelten (perhaps to avoid confusion with Zelte [tents] or zelten [to camp]:-))

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Googling arround suggests that the stone axe type of celt is from the Latin "celtis" for chisel. So maybe a hard c.

# Posted on October 29th 2009 by david_h

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

Off topic maybe, but people above have brought up the interesting fact that the Irish immigrants who influenced the naming of the Boston Celtics in the USA and Glasgow Celtic in Scotland both used the soft C "sell-tick".

Another interesting thing is that both in Scotland and in the USA these Irish immigrants (or their sons or grandsons) usually used a four-leave clover as their emblem rather than the shamrock.

I see, nearly every day, businesses around here with Irish-sounding names like "Kelly Construction" or "Shamrock Plumbing" or "Reilly's Pub" or whatever using the four-leaf-clover, not the shamrock, for their logo just like Glasgow Celtic Football Club.

I've often wondered why...

# Posted on October 31st 2009 by Richard D Cook

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

"I've often wondered why..."

Really? Like out loud?

# Posted on October 31st 2009 by No Cause For Alarm

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

dwink los of black porter an u ave no probum,the devil a care.with love.

# Posted on November 8th 2009 by Dodger

Re: How to pronounce CELT in Gaelic

"how did the word come to be spelled with a C in English? In almost all instances, a C is 'soft' when followed by an E, I or Y - something that is shared with all the modern Romance ... languages ... "

Stricly speaking, English is not a Romance language - it's a primarily a blend of Anglo-Saxon and modified Norman-French, with a bunch of other words picked up from the languages of the British colonies, so there are thousands of exceptions to "the rules". The letter C (and CH) are maverick letters! My daughter's name is Sorcha, which 99% of English English pronounce Sawr-sha, using French rules, despite the fact that they all learn CH as a TCUH- or K-sound in school. Ironically, the French (with whom she lives!) have no trouble with the CH ... or the missing "uh" !

In answer to the question, though, in Irish (Gaelic) it's pronounced KELT.

# Posted on November 8th 2009 by CelticRambler

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